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	<title>Comments for ED</title>
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	<link>http://www.ed.co.nz</link>
	<description>Tertiary education news and views</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 00:57:26 +1300</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on News 7/2 – Wings Clipped. Kauri Rings. Public Academics. by Stephen Day</title>
		<link>http://www.ed.co.nz/2012/02/07/news-72-%e2%80%93-wings-clipped-kauri-rings-public-academics/comment-page-1/#comment-4589</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Day</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 00:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ed.co.nz/?p=4295#comment-4589</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I just about fell off my chair laughing when I read the &#039;communism&#039; comment under Woodham&#039;s column.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I just about fell off my chair laughing when I read the &#8216;communism&#8217; comment under Woodham&#8217;s column.</p>
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		<title>Comment on News 3/2 – BIMs. Rod Carr’s Pay. HIV Data. by Stephen Day</title>
		<link>http://www.ed.co.nz/2012/02/03/news-32-%e2%80%93-bims-rod-carr%e2%80%99s-pay-hiv-data/comment-page-1/#comment-4587</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Day</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 23:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ed.co.nz/?p=4289#comment-4587</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve just met the folks from NZUSA this morning, and I&#039;m pretty sure we were/are on the same page with our concerns about the shift towards Treasury trying to &#039;pick winners&#039;. 

Personally, I&#039;m not surprised that NZUSA chose to focus their media release on student loans - it is there bread and butter. And, a good media release should only address one issue rather than analysing every rubbish thing that Treasury decided to put down on paper.

Personally I think the issue is less about young-old or Pakeha-Māori/PI and more about Treasury (and also the TES) focusing on picking winners, rather than investing in equitable opportunities for all potential learners.
 Treasury as far as I know has no evidence to support its picks, and seems to be working on assumptions that only hold true now because Govt. is stripping apart foundation studies, pathways and opportunities for special admissions. In other words, their previous ill-conceived policy changes become the justification for their next round ill-conceived of policy changes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just met the folks from NZUSA this morning, and I&#8217;m pretty sure we were/are on the same page with our concerns about the shift towards Treasury trying to &#8216;pick winners&#8217;. </p>
<p>Personally, I&#8217;m not surprised that NZUSA chose to focus their media release on student loans &#8211; it is there bread and butter. And, a good media release should only address one issue rather than analysing every rubbish thing that Treasury decided to put down on paper.</p>
<p>Personally I think the issue is less about young-old or Pakeha-Māori/PI and more about Treasury (and also the TES) focusing on picking winners, rather than investing in equitable opportunities for all potential learners.<br />
 Treasury as far as I know has no evidence to support its picks, and seems to be working on assumptions that only hold true now because Govt. is stripping apart foundation studies, pathways and opportunities for special admissions. In other words, their previous ill-conceived policy changes become the justification for their next round ill-conceived of policy changes.</p>
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		<title>Comment on News 3/2 – BIMs. Rod Carr’s Pay. HIV Data. by Richard Hamilton-Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.ed.co.nz/2012/02/03/news-32-%e2%80%93-bims-rod-carr%e2%80%99s-pay-hiv-data/comment-page-1/#comment-4547</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Hamilton-Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 21:27:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ed.co.nz/?p=4289#comment-4547</guid>
		<description>Tinkering with funding on the basis of the age of students doesn’t have a very successful track record.

Study Right was an ill-thought out policy very badly implemented. It certainly put money into administration. I would be interested to know whether it made much difference to the demographic profile of students but I suspect nobody ever researched the matter.

The new Youth Guarantee may in fact make a difference to some young people but, like Study Right, it is a policy and administrative mess. Here we are in February and TEC can’t even define a “Funded Place” with any clarity, let alone explain “Occupancy Rate” or how the EFTS-based performance measures will function, so the chances are that we will never know whether the money was well spent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tinkering with funding on the basis of the age of students doesn’t have a very successful track record.</p>
<p>Study Right was an ill-thought out policy very badly implemented. It certainly put money into administration. I would be interested to know whether it made much difference to the demographic profile of students but I suspect nobody ever researched the matter.</p>
<p>The new Youth Guarantee may in fact make a difference to some young people but, like Study Right, it is a policy and administrative mess. Here we are in February and TEC can’t even define a “Funded Place” with any clarity, let alone explain “Occupancy Rate” or how the EFTS-based performance measures will function, so the chances are that we will never know whether the money was well spent.</p>
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		<title>Comment on News 3/2 – BIMs. Rod Carr’s Pay. HIV Data. by dean</title>
		<link>http://www.ed.co.nz/2012/02/03/news-32-%e2%80%93-bims-rod-carr%e2%80%99s-pay-hiv-data/comment-page-1/#comment-4545</link>
		<dc:creator>dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 21:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ed.co.nz/?p=4289#comment-4545</guid>
		<description>I loved that you started to question my own motives. BTW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved that you started to question my own motives. BTW.</p>
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		<title>Comment on News 3/2 – BIMs. Rod Carr’s Pay. HIV Data. by dean</title>
		<link>http://www.ed.co.nz/2012/02/03/news-32-%e2%80%93-bims-rod-carr%e2%80%99s-pay-hiv-data/comment-page-1/#comment-4543</link>
		<dc:creator>dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 21:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ed.co.nz/?p=4289#comment-4543</guid>
		<description>Well, err, um i was actually trying to point out how potentially futile ascribing motive to something that wasn&#039;t said is ... and tried (hopefully suitably poorly) to ascribe another motive to NZUSA on the basis of little or no actual information but with enough prejudice based on my own experience (and as you point out I bring quite a lot) :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, err, um i was actually trying to point out how potentially futile ascribing motive to something that wasn&#8217;t said is &#8230; and tried (hopefully suitably poorly) to ascribe another motive to NZUSA on the basis of little or no actual information but with enough prejudice based on my own experience (and as you point out I bring quite a lot) <img src='http://www.ed.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on News 3/2 – BIMs. Rod Carr’s Pay. HIV Data. by Dave Guerin</title>
		<link>http://www.ed.co.nz/2012/02/03/news-32-%e2%80%93-bims-rod-carr%e2%80%99s-pay-hiv-data/comment-page-1/#comment-4541</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Guerin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 21:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ed.co.nz/?p=4289#comment-4541</guid>
		<description>Dean, an organisation can argue as it wishes. Given the collection of stories and releases today, NZUSA chose to focus on some things rather than others. I pointed that out and in my experience it is a rather consistent approach from NZUSA and most students&#039; associations to focus on the needs of younger students. I have 20 years of experience to reasonably make that call. And you haven&#039;t actually argued against that call, even though you have a few years on me.

I&#039;d suggest your main concern is that you support the rebalancing towards younger students and are using NZUSA as a proxy to make your own case. I&#039;m agnostic on the issue as I don&#039;t think the MOE or Treasury have fully explored the labour market effects of not supporting retraining of older people. Or indeed the probable greater likelihood that young people will go offshore after graduation. I think the argument needs more work, but I&#039;m open to be convinced.

In terms of logic, you are arguing that the absence of a mention of the younger students issues suggests support for the policy, whereas you provide no direct evidence for that belief. I believe I have put forward some better arguments as to why the issue was not mentioned. We differ - that&#039;s OK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dean, an organisation can argue as it wishes. Given the collection of stories and releases today, NZUSA chose to focus on some things rather than others. I pointed that out and in my experience it is a rather consistent approach from NZUSA and most students&#8217; associations to focus on the needs of younger students. I have 20 years of experience to reasonably make that call. And you haven&#8217;t actually argued against that call, even though you have a few years on me.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d suggest your main concern is that you support the rebalancing towards younger students and are using NZUSA as a proxy to make your own case. I&#8217;m agnostic on the issue as I don&#8217;t think the MOE or Treasury have fully explored the labour market effects of not supporting retraining of older people. Or indeed the probable greater likelihood that young people will go offshore after graduation. I think the argument needs more work, but I&#8217;m open to be convinced.</p>
<p>In terms of logic, you are arguing that the absence of a mention of the younger students issues suggests support for the policy, whereas you provide no direct evidence for that belief. I believe I have put forward some better arguments as to why the issue was not mentioned. We differ &#8211; that&#8217;s OK.</p>
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		<title>Comment on News 3/2 – BIMs. Rod Carr’s Pay. HIV Data. by dean</title>
		<link>http://www.ed.co.nz/2012/02/03/news-32-%e2%80%93-bims-rod-carr%e2%80%99s-pay-hiv-data/comment-page-1/#comment-4539</link>
		<dc:creator>dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 20:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ed.co.nz/?p=4289#comment-4539</guid>
		<description>Sigh, really ...

You question (am I right in saying negatively?) an organisation&#039;s motives on something they omitted to say and unless you have further information on NZUSA which you did not include in blog ... you did a Philosophy major and they specialise in Modal Logic at Victoria ... . Well you get it.

Maybe, just maybe the motivation is that the Government has it right in terms of refocusing our investment and NZUSA (given its view - more to the left than the right - am i correct here?) is loathed to put out a press statement supporting the current administration. Maybe, just maybe it has nothing to do with being younger. 

Is there a &quot;stark contrast&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sigh, really &#8230;</p>
<p>You question (am I right in saying negatively?) an organisation&#8217;s motives on something they omitted to say and unless you have further information on NZUSA which you did not include in blog &#8230; you did a Philosophy major and they specialise in Modal Logic at Victoria &#8230; . Well you get it.</p>
<p>Maybe, just maybe the motivation is that the Government has it right in terms of refocusing our investment and NZUSA (given its view &#8211; more to the left than the right &#8211; am i correct here?) is loathed to put out a press statement supporting the current administration. Maybe, just maybe it has nothing to do with being younger. </p>
<p>Is there a &#8220;stark contrast&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>Comment on News 3/2 – BIMs. Rod Carr’s Pay. HIV Data. by Dave Guerin</title>
		<link>http://www.ed.co.nz/2012/02/03/news-32-%e2%80%93-bims-rod-carr%e2%80%99s-pay-hiv-data/comment-page-1/#comment-4537</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Guerin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 19:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ed.co.nz/?p=4289#comment-4537</guid>
		<description>I can imagine it Dean, but there is a stark contrast between NZUSA simply not commenting on a proposed major transfer between groups of students and the TEU making a comment on the matter. And the focus on younger students is a long-term structural factor in students&#039; associations - note the investment in Orientations, events, etc that focus on younger students.  EXMSS&#039; VP did protect his patch to an extent, but also made a thoughtful contribution to the debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can imagine it Dean, but there is a stark contrast between NZUSA simply not commenting on a proposed major transfer between groups of students and the TEU making a comment on the matter. And the focus on younger students is a long-term structural factor in students&#8217; associations &#8211; note the investment in Orientations, events, etc that focus on younger students.  EXMSS&#8217; VP did protect his patch to an extent, but also made a thoughtful contribution to the debate.</p>
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		<title>Comment on News 3/2 – BIMs. Rod Carr’s Pay. HIV Data. by dean</title>
		<link>http://www.ed.co.nz/2012/02/03/news-32-%e2%80%93-bims-rod-carr%e2%80%99s-pay-hiv-data/comment-page-1/#comment-4535</link>
		<dc:creator>dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 19:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ed.co.nz/?p=4289#comment-4535</guid>
		<description>Dave
Are you able to imagine that people are able to argue a point on the basis of merit (even that based on self-interest)? The economic rates of return for training younger people compared to those, shall we call them er mature or later in life are clear. Maybe NZUSA are just supporting a good argument. Different i know. Your constant sniping about peoples motives detracts from your excellent blog. I think. There is a very good quote from the current Vice-President of the United States that i will send you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave<br />
Are you able to imagine that people are able to argue a point on the basis of merit (even that based on self-interest)? The economic rates of return for training younger people compared to those, shall we call them er mature or later in life are clear. Maybe NZUSA are just supporting a good argument. Different i know. Your constant sniping about peoples motives detracts from your excellent blog. I think. There is a very good quote from the current Vice-President of the United States that i will send you.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Vic’s GrabOne Offer Upstaged by Megan Fox Ad by Stephen Day</title>
		<link>http://www.ed.co.nz/2012/01/30/vic%e2%80%99s-grabone-offer-upstaged-by-brazilian-ad/comment-page-1/#comment-4479</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Day</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 03:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ed.co.nz/?p=4219#comment-4479</guid>
		<description>Yes - you, me and VUW all know the tricks to drive up website views.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes &#8211; you, me and VUW all know the tricks to drive up website views.</p>
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