Comments on: An End to Open Entry at Universities? http://www.ed.co.nz/2010/02/19/an-end-to-open-entry-at-universities/ Tertiary education news and views Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:02:11 +1300 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Paul Williams http://www.ed.co.nz/2010/02/19/an-end-to-open-entry-at-universities/comment-page-1/#comment-75 Paul Williams Sun, 21 Feb 2010 02:10:39 +0000 http://www.ed.co.nz/?p=251#comment-75 Dean, I don't know the specifics of UCal's arrangements but I was recently briefed on a presentation given by two senior US Community College CEs who bemoaned their lack of funding and status. I agree however, there's a need to encourage low SES and otherwise disadvantaged learners into higher education. It's a key objective of the current federal government and they're looking to the VET sector to help them - for instance, we generally have around 45,000 diploma and advanced diploma students per year, approximately 40 per cent of whom are comparatively low SES. One of the major impediments is the programs; VET quals don't typically have the knowledge component of the earlier years of a uni qualification and this generally means very limited credit is awarded. We're working on alternative arrangements, dual offers, joint programs etc, but absent funding, it's not going to happen quickly. Dean, I don’t know the specifics of UCal’s arrangements but I was recently briefed on a presentation given by two senior US Community College CEs who bemoaned their lack of funding and status. I agree however, there’s a need to encourage low SES and otherwise disadvantaged learners into higher education. It’s a key objective of the current federal government and they’re looking to the VET sector to help them – for instance, we generally have around 45,000 diploma and advanced diploma students per year, approximately 40 per cent of whom are comparatively low SES. One of the major impediments is the programs; VET quals don’t typically have the knowledge component of the earlier years of a uni qualification and this generally means very limited credit is awarded. We’re working on alternative arrangements, dual offers, joint programs etc, but absent funding, it’s not going to happen quickly.

]]> By: David Choat http://www.ed.co.nz/2010/02/19/an-end-to-open-entry-at-universities/comment-page-1/#comment-72 David Choat Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:22:12 +0000 http://www.ed.co.nz/?p=251#comment-72 Dave - I think your comment about "a diversified institution that can’t simply rely on others to feed in qualified students" gets to the heart of the idea that there is a distinctive New Zealand model of university, which strongly informed the thinking around the establishment and continuation of the open adult entry policy. This comes through very clearly in Beeby's <em>Biography of an Idea</em>. Is that sort of model one we now wish to discard? I'd argue not without careful thought about what we're giving up and why. Dean - that issue about seamless progression is of course very much the focus of the Pathways & Staircasing report overall - tho structural shifts like a UCal model were well outside of our scope! Dave – I think your comment about “a diversified institution that can’t simply rely on others to feed in qualified students” gets to the heart of the idea that there is a distinctive New Zealand model of university, which strongly informed the thinking around the establishment and continuation of the open adult entry policy. This comes through very clearly in Beeby’s Biography of an Idea. Is that sort of model one we now wish to discard? I’d argue not without careful thought about what we’re giving up and why.

Dean – that issue about seamless progression is of course very much the focus of the Pathways & Staircasing report overall – tho structural shifts like a UCal model were well outside of our scope!

]]> By: Dean Carroll http://www.ed.co.nz/2010/02/19/an-end-to-open-entry-at-universities/comment-page-1/#comment-71 Dean Carroll Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:09:10 +0000 http://www.ed.co.nz/?p=251#comment-71 Might it be interesting to distinguish between open entry to 'universities' and open entry into the tertiary education system. I have long advocated that academic merit is the most effective and efficient mechanism and framework to ration 'higher' education. The problem we have in New Zealand is that there is not a system by which students/trainees can enter tertiary education and progress seemlessly and in which their formal and non-formal educational achievement is given appropriate and fair recognition. Those who have "Job-like" qualities will have already been bored with my decade-long advocacy of the University of California model in which in New Zealand polytechnics and others would place the role of community colleges. The key difference from the current system would be that polytechnics could award associate degrees, there would be automatic RPL and cross-crediting and a certain percentage of university places would be guaranteed for polytechnic/wananga/PTE graduates. This system is well established overseas. Might it be interesting to distinguish between open entry to ‘universities’ and open entry into the tertiary education system. I have long advocated that academic merit is the most effective and efficient mechanism and framework to ration ‘higher’ education. The problem we have in New Zealand is that there is not a system by which students/trainees can enter tertiary education and progress seemlessly and in which their formal and non-formal educational achievement is given appropriate and fair recognition. Those who have “Job-like” qualities will have already been bored with my decade-long advocacy of the University of California model in which in New Zealand polytechnics and others would place the role of community colleges. The key difference from the current system would be that polytechnics could award associate degrees, there would be automatic RPL and cross-crediting and a certain percentage of university places would be guaranteed for polytechnic/wananga/PTE graduates. This system is well established overseas.

]]> By: Dave Guerin http://www.ed.co.nz/2010/02/19/an-end-to-open-entry-at-universities/comment-page-1/#comment-70 Dave Guerin Thu, 18 Feb 2010 23:50:39 +0000 http://www.ed.co.nz/?p=251#comment-70 I think Rod made some very good points in his column, but he also seemed to abdicate responsibility for addressing the issue. The global research is pretty clear that people from all backgrounds can succeed at university as long as they come in with adequate academic preparation. Rod seemed to be saying that that was the responsibility of secondary schools (or anyone other than the university). While the university is not the only place that can help students prepare, it needs to be involved in the solution. Remedial education programmes may be 'expensive and distracting' as he says, but Rod isn't heading an ivy league university He's heading a diversified institution that can't simply rely on others to feed in qualified students. I think Rod made some very good points in his column, but he also seemed to abdicate responsibility for addressing the issue. The global research is pretty clear that people from all backgrounds can succeed at university as long as they come in with adequate academic preparation. Rod seemed to be saying that that was the responsibility of secondary schools (or anyone other than the university). While the university is not the only place that can help students prepare, it needs to be involved in the solution. Remedial education programmes may be ‘expensive and distracting’ as he says, but Rod isn’t heading an ivy league university He’s heading a diversified institution that can’t simply rely on others to feed in qualified students.

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