Comments on: National Standards – Not a Bad Idea (Darel Hall)

By: Luke

Luke — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 00:36:28 +0000

So if i am a poor principal with a couple of average to poor teachers then i might be held accountable (shiver). So the govt will collect and monitor (shiver). So let me get this straight, I administer the tests, I distribute and supervise them too, I mark them, I collate them, I report to parents on them, I send my results to the Ministry. Why would I make myself look bad, there maybe a problem but the govt wont care because Mr Useless (30% of all principals) will send in “improved” results, the Nats will be happy cause “National Standards” will look like we are improving. We are only missing one thing, KIDS. They probably will just be the football that gets kicked around in the game playing situation. There is no winner here, but if you think it wont happen it already is in every secondary school and university in NZ. All the dumb pupils are shoved into classes that either aren’t assessed while the clever ones sit Cambridge or IB and the fancy schools all “look good”. Universities take money from all students, hand out C’s for turning up and the cash cow goes around. If we want this for our primary schools then roll on the Nats.

By: Dave Guerin

Dave Guerin — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:12:25 +0000

Thanks for the comments Jason, Kay and Richard (and all the viewers of this post. Darel has decided to let the post stand on its merits, rather than respond to the comments, but you’ve certianly helped expand the discussion.

By: Jason

Jason — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 00:54:31 +0000

>The policy is likely to produce small but statistically significant results and that is what should have been sold.

Ah.. if only that was its outcome, then the pain might well be worth it. However, why give standards the benefit of the doubt? I can see only see mixed evidence of benefit from similar schemes, e.g., “The impact of NCLB on student achievement” Dee and Jacob (2009), and strong suggestions of harm from educating a subset of children that they are failures, e.g., the Cambridge Primary Review.

By: Kay

Kay — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:19:40 +0000

When the PM says 30% of teachers aren’t up to scratch what does he mean? This isn’t what ERO reports indicate. Their reports suggest that 10% are adequate or could improve. The other 90% of primary school teachers range from excellent, very good to good.

As a former accountant it is surprising that the PM makes such a basic mistake. I wonder what other mis-statements are in the proposal to only teach and test reading, writing and arithmetic at primary schools at the expense of teaching other subjects like art, science and technology.

By: Richard Graydon

Richard Graydon — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:24:57 +0000

Sitting at my computer in Winnipeg in the middle of winter (-20C) waiting for the Winter Olympics to commence later this week in Vancouver, I have been reading your column. You have covered all the bases as far as I can see. You have identified the problems and the solutions, all costly. As a NZ born educator who moved to Canada in the 70′s, been a principal of 8 schools at all levels, and now retired, it is interesting to read the arguments from the otherside of the world and be able to identify with them so easily. I now work as a Faculty Advisor for the University of Manitoba training Middle Years teachers. Ther is no question in my mind the the beginning of teacher improvement is in the academic and educational practice during the teacher training years. Over time the whole standard of professional practice improves. The difficult problem is to deal with those current teachers who are not perfoming satisfactorily. The task is expensive – regular in-service training, workshops that cover all essential areas of practice, a rigorous teacher evaluation system that regularly affirms competent professionals and identifies those under performing and prescribes appropriate remedies over a two year period to “shape up or ship out”. There is a place for the NZEI and other professional organizations to be part of this process and to be able to affirm publicly the competence of its members in serving the children in every community.
I hope the situation in NZ is dealt with sensibly rather than in a confrontitive manner that achieves little and sews discord.

By: Hands up for Learning » 9th Feb

Hands up for Learning » 9th Feb — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:51:24 +0000

[...] Education Directions Gueast blogger Darel Hall takes apart the standards. link [...]

By: Paul Williams

Paul Williams — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 04:38:18 +0000

A great peice, thanks. I appreciate that the government were bound by their pre-election commitments to do something but I can’t help but think the Minister’s made an already difficult issue, worse.

Building on your points, one of my objections to National Standards and the comparisons they invite is the narrow range of variables.

My middle child started school this year (in Australia). We choose a school for which NAPLAN data is not available (since its only K – 2 and NAPLAN starts at Year 3) over a school that has some of the best figures in NSW. I choose it for many reasons. It’s closer, she knows kids going there, it’s smaller (and she’s starting at the comparatively young age of 4 and 1/2), it has a great Parents and Community group plus, and here’s the main thing, I like the teachers and principal.

National Standards or the national reporting of standardised assessment information is necessarily constrained to English, Maths, Science or some minor variation. In Australia, myschool has additional data but Australian schools are not subject to ERO reports. NSW schools have nothing like the automony NZ schools have. There’s lots of Catholics and non-government schools, but my instinct is there’s not nearly as many independent/integrated schools as there are in NZ. This means there’s likely less scrutiny, less autonomy and less variation (in NSW). Perhaps then there’s a stronger case for myschool here than National Standards in NZ (so, journo’s, please stop with the simplistic comparison).

In all the discussion of National Standards in NZ, I fear parents are being told that that’s all that matters and of course it’s not.